Alliance Gathering Consortium

[Kyraath]

So this is directly from Kayla who is in charge of handling reagents and gathering needs to supply the MC runs. You can gain DKP for collecting herbs and other resources needed for our success in MC. More than a way to gain a little DKP, this is a great system to gather materials needed for our future success in MC. If you guys have any questions, post them here and I'll forward them on to Kayla



I have added to the reagents list and I hope made the amount to collect to earn the DKP clearer.
The dkp cap per week is 2.

Collect a full stack of the following and earn 0.5 DKP for each stack
Blindweed
Dreamfoil
Fadeleaf
Ghostmushroom
Golden Sansam
Goldthorn
Grave Moss
Gromsblood
Icecap
Khadegar's Whisker
Mountain Silversage
Plaguebloom
Sungrass
Wintersbite
Dream Dust
Thorium Ore

Turn is 20 Heart of the Wild and earn 0.5 DKP

Turn in 5 of one of the following and earn 0.5 DKP
Elemental Earth
Elemental Fire
Major Health pots
Major Mana pots

Turn in 10 Stonescale Eel and earn 1 DKP

Turn in 2 Black Lotus and earn 0.5 DKP

*Please note partial submittals will not earn DKP*
*You can turn in as much as you like but the cap for how much DKP that can be earned for a week is 2.*

[Kyraath]

And here is an EXCELLENT list of locations if your looking for something specific:



Black Lotus - Almost any zone, it's a rare spawn. Takes a little luck, but a few places are more consistent then others. EPL has a few regular drops.

Dreamfoil - EPL, Azshara, Ungoro, Felwood are the best. Can also be found in Burning Steppes, WPL, Silithid, and a few others.

Elemental Earth - Any earth elementals have a chance, but a few spots are pretty good. In Arathi in between games of AB, you can hit just south west of reuge point and kill the rumbling exiles there. They have a pretty good drop rate and it won't take long to pick up a stack of ten. Plus you get lots of good vendor trash from these (I average about 10g hour farming these).

Elemental Fire - Similar to the earth ones here. The ones in Arathi have a good chance. You can get these from the fire elementals in Un'goro, Searing gorge, and the toxic horrors in Felwood.

Fadeleaf - Midlevel zones for these. Swamp of Sorrows, STV, Hinterlands, Arathi are all very good.

Golden Sansam - Higher level zones. EPL, WPL, Azshara, Felwood, Siltihid, and a few others.

Grave Moss - Like it's called around any grave yards. Doing Scarlet Monestary is a good place http://litl-guild.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Gromsblood - Around Demons. Felwood is great and Blasted lands is ok.

Heart of the Wild - Killing the walking moss things. Ungoro, Felwood, SOS are the best.

Icecap - Winterspring only

Mountain Silversage - High Level zones. Felwood, Ungoro, EPL, Azshara, Silithid are very good.

Plaguebloom - Felwood or EPL/WPL

Stonescale Eel ? The best spot is Bay of Storms off the coast of Azshara. Best time is between 12am and 6am server time. So if you are on late at night this is you. You will need the 100 or atleast the 75 fishing lures to catch these. While fishing these you can get lots of other good fishies.

Sungrass - All the frick over. Hinterlands is a darn good spot.

Goldthorn - All over too. STV, Hinterlands, Arathi, SOS are good spots.

Wintersbite - Alterac Valley only

Khadegar's Whisker - Same as Sungrass and Goldthorn.

Blindweed - In swampy places. Swamp of Sorrows and Ungoro (by the tar pits) are the best.

GhostMushrooms - Caves! Hinterlands cave and Mauradon are very good.

So the main zones to hit are Felwood, Hinterlands, Swamp of Sorrows, EPL, Winterspring, and Azshara. GL and happy hunting.

[lethalmind]

It is nice to see that gathering is figured in on dkp finally but wow what a difference in some of these. I can get .5 dkp for turning in mountain silversage (1.2g per or about 20g a stack) or 5 major heals. that i can get off ah? ( 5 for 4-5g ) ok.. ill but a few for the guild lol.
Its a good idea and is nice that we are now farming this for guild use.. oh im sorry troika use.. my apoligies.
I have always felt sorry for people like strom who put forth crazy effort to make sure we had major mana pots.. that he was making for no profit(dkp and money). One broke sob cause somethin he could be selling 5 maj mana pots for 15g was giving to alliance

[Jafo]

I completely understand where your comming from Lethal. It is the same on my end for the mining. A single stack of Dark Iron Ore sells for 6-10g on the AH and we do not even get DKP points for it. A stack of Thorium is worth .5 DKP and is valued at 4-6g on the AH. Both of these are very hard to obtain because people farm the hell out of it, On a good night you are lucky to get 10+ pieces of DI ore and that takes about 1-2 hours.

The DKP for materials idea is a very good one, but the payouts in DKP on the alliance end are minimal where it is more beneficial to sell what you have on the AH to pay your repair bills.

I am optimistic because the system is new and was just implimented, so it has not had any opportunity to make adjustments as of yet. I think it will be more successful it the DKP payouts were raised to reflect the market. Here is the idea.

For and example. If you have a stack of Dark Iron Ore that is valued at 7g on the AH. A stack of Dark Iron Ore is 10 pieces, each gold would be worth .5DKP so the DKP value of the Dark Iron Ore would be 3.5 DKP.

In the case of your Mountain Silversage you said it was 1.2g each or 20G a stack. I think a fair DKP value would be the same as with the DI ore. .5 DKP for each Gold value, meaning 10 DKP for a full stack. You would be limited to once per week on donating to the Alliance, but it is a suppliment to DKP.

It is all about putting a fair and accurate DKP value on each item that is to be farmed. Some of this takes hours to collect, thus the DKP reward should reflect that. The most accurate way to reflect that is to link the DKP value to the AH value to each specific item.

I think if something like this was done, it would make it more effective of a program.

[Stromgarde]

the first point I would like to make is that the payouts were meant to be low because it is designed to be an incentive program to get people to help out extra and to reward them minimally for their efforts. What we tried to avoid is a method that people who don't really raid at all can make up all of their points just by spending a little time gathering some reagents and come into raids once a month or less or however frequently and be ahead of someone who has worked long and hard to accumulate points via attendance. The little perk of 2dkp per week is pretty reasonable if you aren't getting loot every week, which most of us aren't.

Second, with regards to dark iron ore. I got nothing here as of right now, but I think I will discuss this with my superiors and kyraath you might want to make note of this as well. i believe there needs to be some kind of kickback for those contributing dark iron ore and never seeing anything for that as well.

I don't want to get carried away and start thinking that anything that is a trade good should be worth dkp but I think it is fair for the dark iron ore since its contribution is supposedly being used for alliance success. As far as the reagent contribution, think of it as incentive, not payment.

[Malice]

I agree with strom on this one. While I do agree DI should be worth DKP, it should only be worth dkp when collected on your own time, not in MC. And yes, my view is that this is just a small incentive to help the alliance, not a replacement for raiding. Plus, you have to look at it this way, if you are getting that insainly high amount of dkp for dark iron, how is that fair to those that don't mine? I'm kind of in a sticky situation here because Kayla said that she doesn't want any more thorium. Well I don't have a herbalist that can get all the stuff we need for pots. Its not like I don't want to help the alliance, I use pots frequently from them but about all I can do is take the DI I collect from BRD runs or Burning steppes and turn it over. Thats my rambling for the day. Kind of feeling rambly today. :wave:

[Jafo]

Please don't mis-interpret what I am trying to get at here. I completely agree that using DKP incentives as a replacment for raiding is definatley not what it should be used for and it defeats the purpose of raiding.

I only think that the value of it should be higher than what it is and there should be a limit on how much you can turn in for DKP incentives. Farming for materials is not exactally what I think anyone calls "FUN" It is bad enough when your trying to get something for your own purposes and you have to compete against the other farmers. When I farm DI ore, I do not do it in MC. All the ore I get is from the Searing Gorge. I think I have only picked up a few pieces while in an MC raid, becasue I am more concered about the raid.

Keep in mind, I really think this is a good idea and it should be utilized as for what the alliance needs in materials. Like Malice just stated, Kayla is full on Thorium. If she does not need any more Thorium, then that incentive for Thorium should be suspended until such time where the inventory needs to be replenished. The Incentive should be applied to what is needed only and that will change on a regular basis.

[Cyllene]

I have to agree with Strom, I like the idea that we can get a tiny incentive from gathering for alliance needs, but I think the DKP earned from gathering has to be REALLY limited to prevent what he said, ppl farming their DKP instead of attending raids.

However, I do agree that the incentive list needs to be more frequently updated, and something should be done to allow for people who wish to contribute but who do not have the requisite skills to do so, like herbalism or mining. :)

Lol, in my case, it seems to limit me to farming for pots or fishing, fishing, fishing....

*shrug* that's my ramble for today :)

*hugs*

Cyl

[Stromgarde]

yep. don't worry jaf, im not misunderstanding what you're stating, i'm just clarifying for all our intents when we came up with the program.

as for mining, you can always farm health and mana pots with the same outcome, both of which are highly needed, send in 5 mana pots and you've got some dkp, doesn't take too long to farm for them.

as for updating the list of what is truly desired, bare with it, it's fairly time consuming as is and she has to sort out what we have plenty of and what needs to be produced and then cross examine what we have to see what we need.

nonetheless, you'll never go wrong turning in a few major mana/health pots.

[Jafo]

Thanks Strom, I just want to make sure that people understand I am just trying to have a conversation and raise a valid point about this, not start an agrument. Let me put it in this perspective for the sake of a better explanation and example and then as Malice and Cylene have stated today, I will quit my rambling.


I am trying to get my epic mount where I have already dropped 150 gold just to get my barding. My next phase is also 150 gold. If I have a stack of Thorium that I can put on the market for 4 gold or a stack of DI ore that goes for 6-8g on the market. Look at the difference in value if you turn those items for only .5 DKP. What is my most logical choice considering my situation? I am going to take the Gold.

Now, Just so I can field the question of "is Jafo being greedy" on this issue before someone were to think it. It is not being greedy, it is simple economics and the values of items. I contribute to all of my guildmates and helped many of them as they have helped me.

That is also what I think Lethal was trying to get at. The Values of items.

In conclusion, my main point is the DKP incentive should be re-evaluated on an item by item basis so the DKP incentive it fits the value of the item as it is based on the auction house. Incentives should only be given on those items that the alliance needs to fit its goals, and limits should be in place, as they already are, so that someone cannot use the DKP incentives as a replacement to joining raids.

Thanks Guys, I only speak my mind when I feel I have a valid point to make. My intension is for this to be constructive so thank you all for your time and input.

[Stromgarde]

I couldnt disagree with any of that. i will toss out a counterpoint just for shits and say that there are two sides to the way you can look at it. you can look at it from your own standpoint and look at what you can gain either way. In this situation and your current situational goals it would be in your best interest to make the money now and as you feel more complete down the road you contribute to the alliance. the second is the alliance standpoint. which, with no negative conotations, does not care about your personal gains one bit... its single concern is its success. the alliance itself does not get any items from bosses or any items from trash mobs, it only achieves success. the players individually are the ones who earn the epics. of course this doesnt mean the members of the alliance dont care for you, they very well might :D with that said, the alliance doesn't really have anything tangible to hand over so it's impossible to really put a value on these turn-ins. now if you wanted to get technical with it look at BoE mc drops. bracers sell for someting like 1k gold or so. they cost 20 DKP. that then makes it .02 dkp per gold. so lets say a stack(20) of mountain silversage sells for about 15g which makes that stack worth .3dkp. a stack of thorium then would be worth between .10 and .16 dkp. with this as a model it makes the current values plenty fair.

just something to chew on. :)

[Jafo]

I cannot dispute that one bit Strom, that is a valid counterpoint. Yes, I agree that every item in the game goes for a much lesser price when sold to a particular vendor, but it does not make much sence to sell to a vendor when you can get more off the auction house, especially if it is a high valued item and it is not hard to figure out the high valued items. If the alliance were to give a higher incentive for what it really needs, and really make it worth doing for its members, it would not only benefit the individual members of the alliance, it would also benefit the overall stability and the loyality of its members to the alliance.

The members make the alliance what it is and what it stands for, and we all have the option not to be in it if we did not want to. I choose to be in this alliance as does OOE.

With no precieved negative conotations, as far as personal gain, if I were truly selfish and had no value of loyality to anything at all. I would already have my epic pally mount. I felt it was more important to give the Crusader Enchantment pattern I picked up to Kyraath, instead of selling it for gold on the Auction House. I also felt it was more important to give Melkorzk his epic pole arm out of Zul Grub that I won the roll for. And these two guys have more than returned me the favor in one situation or another.

I think personal gains are a very important part of a guild and an alliance. If we did not help each other achieve our personal goals, we would not have much of an alliance at all. I have always felt that it is kind of a two way street, a two way street that exist between a guild and it members, the same as it should be with an alliance and a guild.


My hats off to you Strom.

[lethalmind]

Its amazing an intelligent conversation without anyone getting pissed off?

Just to throw my two cents back in, Yes what you said is what I meant Jafo. I am not asking us to make things more difficult for members to keep track of and I dont want to make this a way for people to skip raids and think they can use this as a substitute.
I do feel that a fair auction value of a item should be used towards the dkp breakdown. Strom is one of the leading contributors that I knew of before this implementation and although it should not be used instead of raiding, it is a vital part of the runs. Just think it would be nice to be more fairly evaluated.
I am not saying that what we have is not a good start. Just needs a little tweek to bring in line.
Value of items is used for everything we do. Dkp should reflect accordingly as well.
Thank You to everyone for having something to say that is both constructive and educational.
Its easy to point the finger to say whats wrong. Its hard to fix the problem with out hands.

[Jafo]

Its amazing an intelligent conversation without anyone getting pissed off?

No, there was no reason to get pissed off. It is a valid issue and we were discussing it in a productive manner. It shows respectable character when people respect each others opinion reguardless if they agree or not.

[D-Bone]

I think lethal was expressing some sarcarstic amazment that we were indeed having a nice conversation without getting pissy, which no one has.

I would like commend and thank all of you guys for having such a great discussion about this. :happy:

[Cyllene]

Agreed, I believe this is what people refer to as an 'adult' conversation....lol....wtg :)

*hugs*

Cyl

[lethalmind]

Yes, I was trying to be sarcastic. Perhaps I am not as obivious as i should be.
I enjoy having discussions that we actually are having a good conversation about.

[Jafo]

Well even though he was being sarcastic, he made a point that no one got bent out of shape. I agreeded with him.