GTA:SA, politicians and the ESRB

[D-Bone]

OK, I was gonna just let this go because its the same old song and dance we hear everytime. BUT, I just read another story on this and my blood started to boil again. For those who haven't heard, there is a "hack" available that allows you to play sexually explicit mini games in GTA:SA. In the past 2 weeks, it has blown up to the point that now Sen Clinton is calling for a federal investigation. WTF!?!?

Let's look at the facts. This is a game that has been given an "M" rating by the ESRB for "Blood and gore, intense violence, strong language, strong sexual content, and use of drugs." The "M" rating means 17 and up. The only other higher rating is "A" for adults only which means 18 and up. So, lets see, Sen Clinton is worried about all the 17 year olds who are now going to be exposed to sex scenes in addition to carjacking, murders, drugs, etc. POLITICIANS ARE FUCKING RETARDS.

So, now I'm reading this article today, and I get this tasty nugget:
California Assemblyman and child psychologist Leland Yee has been a longtime advocate of laws limiting children's access to violent video games. On July 6, he released a statement chiding ESRB for what he said was the inappropriate rating of Grand Theft Auto:San Andreas due to the ?hidden animations which allow players to watch graphic scenes featuring oral sex, nudity, and simulated intercourse.?


?Once again, ESRB has failed our parents,? lamented Mr. Yee.

The ESRB has failed!?!?! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PSYCHO-MORON? The ESRB gave it an "M" rating! It says "strong sexual content" in the rating! If a parent with a child under 17 buys this game and then decides its not appropriate, THEY are the ones who have failed. PARENTS are resposible for their kids, NOT the ESRB. The federal investigation should be centered around why so many parents are idiots in this country. In addition, someone just needs to take a baseball bat to each of these politicians calling for this, smack them upside the head, point with a stern finger at them and say "NO!".

[Dante]

This is all just another ruse to impose more laws which eat away at our personal freedom. Politicians feel the 'awesome responsibility' :rolleyes: of being our caretakers and to watch out for our personal safety and well-being since we can't do it for ourselves. Hence, they use this resposibility to create more laws which relate to my first point. Not to mention this lines their pockets with supporter money, don't forget that.

[D-Bone]

Anyone else have some comments on this subject? Surely Dante and I can't be the only ones with opinions on this...

[Rehn]

It?s total bullshit. We need to get rid of these old shrives in the Senate, So we can play porno video games, and smoke dope in the privacy of our own home without breaking the law. :cool: I am joking? but it is getting bad when "people" are blaming the ESRB, when clearly the parents need to start taking the responsibility of their own kids.



The senate needs an anemia. Get rid of all of them, flush them out. Most of them are racist bigots who are still living in the 50?s. Pencil pushing closet homos, who get their jollies off, by making our freedoms deteriorate. FUCK EM!:jokercolor:



Soon the US will be like the movie Equilibrium. We will be mindless tards, running around believing in scientology, with no soul or hope. :pissed: :pissed:





I am done.

[Kyraath]

ooo equilibrium, that was a great show, maybe I should even add that to my list of favorites on the "get to know ooe" post. and yes it does seem like our country will quickly move toward that state where all emotions are marked illegal and we wander around in a drug induced pointless life.

[Malice]

Well, I know we've been over this a thousand times but I'm really torn on this issue. While I steadfastly support free speech and the ideal that government should not have moral control over its citizens, something about GTA and GTA like games, seems wrong. Look I know its JUST a game and that games themselves, in my opinion, do not cause people to be violent or become criminals. But I guess what is so hard for me is to understand WHY you all like those kinds of games? I guess the fact that my brother is a Cop and I know that he really has to deal with people trying to kill him every day just makes me shudder at the thought of anyone, that I consider to be a normal person, getting enjoyment in simulating commiting crimes and killing people and especially cops. Look, I love to play FPS games like Doom, HL, etc, etc. But there is just something about those games that, at least for me, makes sure I know this doesn't have any real implications, this really is just fantasy. Now I have to admit I have only played GTA one time for a short while so for me to truely judge is kind of unfair. I definately would not allow my children to play such a game since I myself won't play it. I do not want to stop any of you all from playing it either. So in regards to the post and the 'topic', fuck those bastards that want to censor it and hold anyone acountable for it. A rating of M means don't let fucking kids play this if you are a self respecting parent. So stop being a lazy fuck and talk to your kids and tell them why you don't want them to play it and enforce some rules! Also, yes I am very well aware that my argument actually has no validity to it. I'm just going to have to say, thats just how I feel. That doesn't make it right but I'm going to be a litle irrational on this one.

Oh and by the way, "You don't know the history of psycology, I do!" -Tom Cruise

[Rehn]

Oh and by the way, "You don't know the history of psycology, I do!" -Tom Cruise

HAHAHAH

CHeck out www.xenu.net (http://[url=) it will freak you out. big time.

[D-Bone]

Oh and by the way, "You don't know the history of psycology, I do!" -Tom Cruise

LOL, nice! I love it when Bob and Tom use that for anything. That's a whole new soapbox rant though for another time.

I for one don't play the GTA games either. I don't care who does. It's a game. You say "shudder at the thought of anyone, that I consider to be a normal person, getting enjoyment in simulating commiting crimes and killing people and especially cops." You kill people in the games we play! BF2, you can kill american solidiers, COD, you can kill american soldiers. What makes that different than GTA? Just because its cops vs. soldiers? I don't think you can use that as an argument... because any "normal" person knows its just a game. Its the already psycho kids we need to worry about. We are talking about people under 17 playing this games because their parents bought it for them and thats the problem. This game has an M rating with obvious bad things listed on the box. Parents need to take responsibility, not Rockstar, not politicians, not ESRB. Parents.

[spawnman]

Ok, so here's my two cents.

I do play GTA games, I find them fun, maybe I'm a little bent but who cares, I enjoy them for what they are. Adult entertainment. As for the "hot coffee" mod, here's what all the free publicity did for me. Let me start by saying that I do not own GTA San Andres yet. I've been playing GTA Vice City. Anyways, once I read about a cool pr0n mod for GTA SA, I thought to myself, "Hey I need to get this before they remove it from the world", so I downloaded it and it's tucked away nicely for the day when I get GTA SA. All I can say is thank you watchdog groups for alerting me to a cool mod that may have quietly passed me by!

Point being, there is NO BAD PUBLICITY! Just keep your mouths shut if you don't want people to know about something. Geez it's not rocket science.

Dorks.

[Rehn]

We have our answer. The douche bag old shives win again.

http://www.forbes.com/business/manufacturing/feeds/ap/2005/07/20/ap2149472.html

[Dante]

And this is going to stop the kids from playing these games how??

I still side with D-Bone on this argument that it isn't the industry's or governments' responsibility to watchdog our kids for us. It's the parents responsibility, plain and simple.

[Rehn]

And this is going to stop the kids from playing these games how??

I still side with D-Bone on this argument that it isn't the industry's or governments' responsibility to watchdog our kids for us. It's the parents responsibility, plain and simple.

Yup.. I agree.

[D-Bone]

Yeah, I saw that today as well. ESRB crumbled under the pressure. It was specifically stated today that even though the content was on the disc, it was disabled and never meant to be seen. Both Rockstar and ESRB did everything correctly. Then the ESRB goes and changes the rating and tells the press that rockstar has tarnished their process. WTF. I still see no problem with what Rockstar did. (I still don't agree with their games but that doesn't matter.) The disabled some content so they could get an M rating. Lets look at the movie industry. They have ratings just like video games. Movie's get edited all the time to achive certain ratings. Remember the South Park movie? That had content removed. Same thing. People are saying it should never have been there in the first place. Well, fuck the first amendment then huh? The rating of AO will not detract the same stupid parents from buying this game for their kids. THAT IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM. Do not let yourselves get brainwashed by all the other pointless arguements out there, at its core, this is a social problem with parenting skills, nothing more.

[Dante]

Do not let yourselves get brainwashed by all the other pointless arguements out there, at its core, this is a social problem with parenting skills, nothing more.Who's getting brainwashed in here? :scratch:

[spawnman]

"Retailers reacted swiftly -- Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Target Corp. and Best Buy Co. said Wednesday they would pull all copies from their store shelves nationwide. Circuit City Stores Inc., the nation's No. 2 consumer electronics chain, joined the list Thursday."

Great, now where am I supposed to purchase this game from? Guess I will have to just download it from Warez Sites and steal it, since I can't buy it locally. Way to go assholes

[Cheesus]

Great, now where am I supposed to purchase this game from?

That's a laugh. What was the last game you legitimately purchased? Goat Fu#*er Tycoon 2005?

[spawnman]

Actually wasted a pretty penny on Half Life 2, wasted because Steam seems to have a problem with my Qwest Actiontec DSL modem. Have had it for months, and yet to be able to play it...

Now I know why I don't purchase a lot of games..

[Cheesus]

I had that same POS modem, worked for me. Yes, I tried DSL for a few months, Comcast's 4Mb pulled me back in. Comcast tech who installed it yesterday said they will have 8Mb by the end of the year.

Comcast > Qwest

[Malice]

I had that same POS modem, worked for me. Yes, I tried DSL for a few months, Comcast's 4Mb pulled me back in. Comcast tech who installed it yesterday said they will have 8Mb by the end of the year.

Comcast > Qwest

Hmm 8Mbit? That sounds good, I'll have that. On the other hand, Steaming Pile of Shit >> Qwest so go figure.

[D-Bone]

Oh great, now look at this: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html

[spawnman]

Here comes the onslaught of frivolous lawsuits and greedy lawyers

[Malice]

:pale:

[D-Bone]

It just keeps getting worse.... http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/gta4/news_6129723.html

[Dante]

Wow... That's quite a majority vote, 355 to 21. I know this dips into our freedom of choice but dang. How much persuasion does this Congressman Upton really have and maybe we should be more concerned about that than a rating on a video game.

[Kyraath]

so now there's a question that I don't think will ever be answered. Did they intentionally leave the code in with that sequence, or was it just pure laziness that they just disabled the code when the censors said "leave this in and you get AO rating, take it out and you get M rating". Personally knowing at least 1 coder (myself) my vote is on laziness. They didn't expect anyone to be able to find that code in there and left it in rather than taking the time to strip it out. I think the government people are jumping to the conclusion that anyone that would make a game as violent as gta are assuming that this company is run and staffed by beings of pure evil hiding in the skins of the developers they killed and replaced. These beings then use the internal remains of the actual developers to keep the inside walls of their offices wet with blood to maintain the evil atmosphere for inspiration for the game development. They don't even think that the staff could possibly be a bunch of lazy overworked developers that when they receive an order to remove a section of code but the release date "WILL NOT CHANGE or they can find new jobs" that these non-evil developers simply disable the code assuming (with their huge egos of course) that no one will be able to find it.

[Malice]

There is a big difference from doing a

/*

Nasty bunch of sexy code

*/

and

if (Cool People Only Code Entered) {

Here is your dirty sexy code

}

I think they left it in on purpose. Not that I'm saying its they are evil for intentionally leavin it in, but it takes more work to wrap it than just block comment it all out. That is assuming it wasn't depenent code. And THAT we can argue about forever and not know without looking at the code.

[D-Bone]

My guess is this. They put it in originally with the full intention of it being in the final product. The censors looked at it and said "whoa fellas, this will get you an AO rating" Rockstar said ok, we'll just make it so its disabled, then no one will see it. They should not be held responsible for something you have to download to access "blocked content". The same thing happens to movies and no one cares about that. Movies have content removed after the censors see it so they can maintain R ratings as well. Same thing just different medium.

But yes, we'll never truly know the answer to this question because Rockstar will deny they did it on purpose until they cease to exsist.

[Kyraath]

Speaking of movies having content removed for the theatre. An argument based on that, those same movies have the content back in once it reaches DVD as bonus material. This whole thing is screwed up.

[D-Bone]

Exactly my point.

[Flowerdoll206]

REMEMBER JESUS LOVES EVERYONE :angel:

[D-Bone]

http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.asp?article_id=10177&filter=

..........

I'm totally gonna snap. You guys will need to take a collection to bail me out of jail... Seriously, I'm on the edge of insanity right now.

[Dante]

The editors comments on this whole thing sum this up completely about how frickin ignorant many parents, and apparently grand-parents, truly are. If you don't mind, I'll place the that quote right here:

Needless to say, there is a huge problem with this lawsuit. Did the grandmother think it was okay to purchase a Mature video game filled to the brim with guns and violence for a 14-year-old? Now that she discovered there's some hidden sex scene in the game, she suddenly doesn't want her grandson to be exposed to that, but extreme violence is acceptable? It simply doesn't make sense. If she had taken just a moment to look at the rating and content descriptors, one of which is "strong sexual content," perhaps she would have never purchased the game in the first place. The game's title is even named after a felony; that alone should have been a red flag to her.

The fact is that Florence Cohen, unfortunately like many parents and grandparents, ignored the ESRB's ratings system completely. Rockstar Games and Take-Two are certainly not to blame for that.
I don't think I could have said that better myself.